Very moving! It reminded me of pretty much every congregation I have ever been in. I felt sad for the old sister who thought she had been DF'd. Poor thing.
Lunatic Faith
JoinedPosts by Lunatic Faith
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53
MY DISASSOCIATION LETTER please read
by josephus inhi all this is josephus here and im posting my disassociation letter minus any identifying details which ill leave blank.
i would like thoughts on it if poss, but not spelling tips as my girl will check it 2morrow i just wanted to see if i struck the right balence .
or maybe if i put something wrong.. thanks all josephus.
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Higher Education June 15th Watchtower 2011
by jwfacts in"higher education: jesus warned against seeking your own glory.
(john 7:18) whatever you decide as to how much secular education you will obtain, have you made sure of the more important things?phil.
1:9,10.. grzegorz, the computer programmer, made some changes in his life.
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Lunatic Faith
You can bet someone raised a JW is a complete waste of oxygen.
I try not to be sensitive about things, but I find this comment offensive. I was a fourth generation born-in. My father was a studier and always encouraged me to study. I am in college now, but my ability to pull of a 4.0 GPA is due to a lifetime of knowing how to study and reason. I did have to break a tight bond around my mind and give up things I had spent my life believing, but I think that makes born-ins more courageous. We have to walk away from family, life long friends, and long held--and often cherished--beliefs. It is not easy and some may choose to stay out of fear of losing everything, not because they are idiots. The statistics prove that born-ins leaving the JW's is very high. Yeah, we are encouraged to read only WTS literature, but I don't know anyone who does that strictly. My own PO has a library full of novels and bios. He and his wife are avid readers and love to experience the world. They have made a choice for themselves and it is their right. Their not a waste of oxygen, they are not idiots. We all have the right to choose how we will live our lives.
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Circuit Assembly Lowlights
by Red Piller inour do is a southerner- his drawl makes the.
scary things he says much easier to swallow.. some highlights of his talks:.
apostates are miserable.
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Lunatic Faith
Dude I keep saying they need a program to turn the low performing brothers to Ministerial Servants and Elders. You be surprised how many low performing brother want a high ranking brother to mentor them, but most of these Elders and Ministerial Servants look at the low performing brothers as social pariahs .
Yeah, the CO asked an elder to reach out to my hubby and help him improve his ministry since that was all that was keeping him from getting appt. The elder liked this other brother better--he was really gregarious and popular--so he reached out to him instead and ignored my hubby who was more shy. The popular brother got appt at the next CO visit and my husband decided he was done reaching out and kissing ass. He stopped attending meetings and joined this community. I wrote a letter to the CO, trying to help him, and never heard a thing. It was like the letter was never received.
You know that makes me think. How many people on here have written letters asking for help and decided to leave the WTS based on how that letter was handled by the elders/society? Rhetorical question--not trying to hijack the OP
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Older Guys: did you pioneer during 'Nam?
by compound complex in.
did you receive a 4-d classification readily?.
cc.
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Lunatic Faith
My dad got the 4D status during the Korean War. He was pioneering full time. Another brother in his cong was draft age and my dad told him he needed to regular pioneer but the brother didn't want to and he ended up in prison when his draft came through.
So it sounds like not a lot changed betweent the Vietnam and Korean wars.
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Higher Education June 15th Watchtower 2011
by jwfacts in"higher education: jesus warned against seeking your own glory.
(john 7:18) whatever you decide as to how much secular education you will obtain, have you made sure of the more important things?phil.
1:9,10.. grzegorz, the computer programmer, made some changes in his life.
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Lunatic Faith
Watchtower, state it as it is - a person with an education is less likely to remain a Witness, as the development of critcal thinking skills leads people to see through shallow Watchtower
reasoning, teachings, and black and white statements.
You have just hit the proverbial nail on the head! That is exactly why, and once you realize that it becomes so much more apparent what a cult they really are.
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Why Don't Witness Parents Get Angry?
by metatron inthere are a great many puzzlements in regard to the meek and servile compliance of witnesses but one area has long interested me.
specifically, why don't more witness parents get angry at the do-nothing watchtower society?
i can recall one somewhat deranged elder's wife who got away with demanding to speak to the assembled body of elders because she was worried that 'all of of our kids are falling out of the truth'.
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Lunatic Faith
Great thread! This has been very enlightening. I was raised by a strict JW father but never looked at things the way mentioned here. Dad loved us but loyally followed the counsel of the WTS.
I need to print this out and find a way to share it with my sis-in-law. She is trying desperately to reign in her 17 year old son and he is just being a normal kid--by the worlds standards--but not good enough for the JW's. But it is their fault. The last time he tried he was about 15 and went to all the effort to make 4 homemade sweet potato pies to contribute to a local KH remodel. When he called the elder in charge to tell him about the pies and ask if he could donate them, he was told no. They didn't need them. He was so crushed he stopped trying. Now he does drugs but is still the same good kid underneath all the hurt and rejection.
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When Sects are Cults
by Lunatic Faith ini know this is a long post and i'm sorry.
but this is a paper i wrote for my sociology final this term.
i was supposed to look at some aspect of my life sociologically.
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Lunatic Faith
I am currently attending a community college in my area, but hoping to transfer so I can get a Bachelor's degree.
I am not aware of an official stand on 'online' courses. It would probably depend on the subject. Vocational schools are alright by some JW's standards since they usually require less time commitment and are focused.
The main thing the JW's discourage--other than the association thing as you mentioned--is teachings that would conflict with 'Bible/WTS' teachings like science or philosophy. The problem with just seeking out a degree is that some courses may be required that cause a student to question and doubt. There is a young pioneer sister in my hall who is attending the community college right now. Her dad is an elder. I keep wondering if the CO's visit this week will change all that because I keep hearing about elders being threatened with removal if their kids are in school. I guess we will see...
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assemblies; how times have changed
by Evidently Apostate inmy wife mentioned our circuit assembly was this weekend, she looked at me and i let out a chuckle and said "the kids are too sick right?
" (they weren't) but it was what she wanted to hear, an excuse from me to blow it off.
it got us thinking about how they were kind of tolerable when we were younger.. meals with ice cream, lots of volunteering to get you out of your seat.. there was more room at past assemblies.
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Lunatic Faith
I'm glad you guys seem to be in this together. I remember ice cream at assemblies! My dad was always strict so I stayed in the seat no matter what--so nothings changed for me.
I was giving a massage to a sister in a nearby hall yesterday. She asked what convention me and my hubby are going to. We have decided not to go this year. So I told her we were going to a different one than her, that way if word gets around, nobody will miss us. Ahhh, the things we do to be subtle...
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When Sects are Cults
by Lunatic Faith ini know this is a long post and i'm sorry.
but this is a paper i wrote for my sociology final this term.
i was supposed to look at some aspect of my life sociologically.
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Lunatic Faith
Haven't gotten graded yet, palmtree. I will post it once I know:)
VM44--I definitely need to spend more time reading freeminds. I have been on there a little bit but will look up the article you recommend. Thanks
saltyoldlady--Once I decided to leave I feel like my desire to read was renewed. I got so tired of reading the same old stuff published by the WT, but would feel guilty if I read anything else. Now I want to read everything I can get my hands on!! So I will check out your books
Thank you for reading it
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When Sects are Cults
by Lunatic Faith ini know this is a long post and i'm sorry.
but this is a paper i wrote for my sociology final this term.
i was supposed to look at some aspect of my life sociologically.
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Lunatic Faith
I know this is a long post and I'm sorry. But this is a paper I wrote for my sociology final this term. I was supposed to look at some aspect of my life sociologically. If you have the patience to read it I would appreciate some input on what you think of it and if my reasoning is sound. (I haven't read Combatting Cult MInd Control yet because this school year has been so busy. Hoping to read it this summer:) Thank you from LUna
When Sects are Cults
Compared to almost every other high-income country, the United States has surprisingly managed to maintain their religiosity. Religiosity is defined as the importance of religion in one's life (Macionis, 2009, p. 398). The U.S. can even claim some homegrown faiths which have become some of the fastest growing religions in our day. My family has extensive and generational adherence to two of these religions: Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.
A church is defined as a religious organization that is well integrated into the larger society, persists for centuries, has a formally trained clergy class, and recognizes the right of others to have different beliefs. Catholics, Baptists, Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, and Judaism would all qualify as churches (Macionis, 2009, p. 396).
A sect is a religious organization that stands apart from the larger society. Its members have rigid religious convictions and deny the beliefs of others, which cause outsiders to view them as "narrow-minded" for insisting that they alone follow the true religion. Sects attract more disadvantaged people who find their promise of salvation appealing. A high rate of turnover usually requires sects to proselytize aggressively to maintain their numbers (Macionis, 2009, p. 396-397). Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses would qualify as sects.
Cults are religious organizations that function outside society's cultural traditions. They usually form around a charismatic group or leader who offers a compelling message of a new and different way of life. Cults set themselves apart for they exist at odds with society in general and usually require its members to adopt a radically new lifestyle (Macionis, 2009, p. 397).
I previously mentioned my association with Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. My father's family has been Mormon since the religion was founded by Joseph Smith in 1830. However, my father chose to convert to Jehovah's Witness when he was only 20 years old. This was 1953. He was told by his 12 brothers and sisters that they would disown him. His own wife threatened him with divorce if he left the faith. He saw a need to follow his heart and was baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. His wife immediately left him, taking their baby daughter with her.
My father left medical school because he was informed Armageddon was only about six months away, and got a job as a crane operator for the railroad in Ogden, Utah. After five years of this back-breaking toil, he met and married my mother-also one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Her family had been associated with Jehovah's Witnesses almost from the beginning-about the time of World War I. After five years of further full-time ministry they decided to start a family and moved 700 miles away from the Mormon family to prevent any indoctrination of me or my siblings. They settled in Central Oregon. Seven years later I was born-1972.
I was only a few days old when I went out in the door-to-door ministry for the first time. Meetings were held 5 times a week and ministry was required every Saturday morning and sometimes on Sunday after services. I never remember liking the ministry or the meetings. Meetings would usually result in me or my brothers getting spanked at least once for not being quiet enough. I would try to hide to avoid going to meetings.
My mother was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis when I was too young to remember but I vividly remember her quick decline. She was bed-ridden by the time I was nine. This was when things got bad. Looking back now I feel I was forced to live life by the Braille method, with little to no direction from my parents who had other things on their minds. Our adherence to the sect of Jehovah's Witnesses remained constant during this time as my father was a strict patriarch with rock-solid faith. This didn't help my feeling of isolation and loss. I couldn't celebrate holidays or birthdays, or salute the flag, or go stay the night at friend's houses.
My mother died when I was nineteen. I used her death as the incentive I needed to submerge myself fully in the Jehovah's Witness faith. According to their creed, all loved ones would be resurrected after Armageddon. I was convinced Armageddon would be here before the year 2000 and that meant I could see my mother again. I entered into the full-time ministry like my parents and fully immersed myself in the faith. Since Armageddon was "just around the corner" I avoided college so I could serve more fully.
The years passed and I stayed faithful, but couldn't maintain the same level of commitment. I started to realize I was becoming emotionally unhinged due to the constant pressure to achieve and measure up to "God's" requirements. I decided to slow down and try to regain my sanity.
I buried my father three months ago-a disappointed old man who had expended his life on a system of beliefs that had only managed to bring him sadness. He never gave up hope that Armageddon would come and he wouldn't have to see death, but he was disappointed once again.
Just as my mother's death invigorated my faith, my father's death killed it. I was not going to finish my life as my father had-he had given up everything to devote himself fully to his faith. And what did he have to show for it? Humiliation, isolation, and persecution.
Once I stopped association with the religion of my childhood, my authentic self began to emerge. I began to heal. I decided to see a therapist during this time and she helped me to see that I had value and needn't judge myself based on the tenets of a marginal group. The number of people with experiences similar to mine is in the thousands.
According Society by John J. Macionis, "most people who join cults suffer no psychological harm" (Macionis, 2009, p. 397). If that were true, there wouldn't be widespread literature and therapy to combat cult mind-control. The damage of being in a controlling religion that guides every aspect of a person's life has been well documented. Jehovah's Witnesses have an authoritarian leadership in that even the minutest aspects of life are controlled by the Governing Body of 9-12 men who live in New York. Things such as health concerns, choices of entertainment, sexual acts performed by married couples, how to dress, how to act, how to speak, and how to worship are all controlled in a subtle manner that makes adherents imagine they are making the proper decisions for themselves based upon ambiguously applied "Bible principles".
According to Time magazine in 2008, Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) lose two-thirds of their born-ins. This high rate of turnover explains the aggressive proselytism each member must engage in (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1716987,00.html). Totalitarianism is a highly centralized system that extensively regulates people's lives and may explain why born-ins leave Jehovah's Witnesses so frequently. From the outside, this relatively harmless sect could be considered normative in that association is voluntary, but once someone becomes an active and baptized member their association is coercive and restrictive (Macionis, 2009, p. 130-131). If a baptized member decides to leave the sect they are disfellowshipped:
If the person rejected their loving admonition and continued to promote a sect, a committee of elders could disfellowship, or expel, such one for apostasy. (2 Timothy 2:17; Titus 3:10, 11) The individual brothers and sisters in the congregation would follow Paul's direction to "avoid" the one who tried to "cause divisions." John counseled similarly: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him."-2 John 10 (Watchtower, 1986, p. 31).
This disciplinary action is excused as loving when in fact it is highly damaging and happens more often than implied by the quote. Families have split up after one of its members is disfellowshipped. People have even killed themselves because such ones are avoided by everyone they know and love within the JW organization. Many others choose to remain within a faith they no longer believe in just to avoid losing their parents, spouse, and children (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/).
When one enters the JW religion, in-group association is strongly encouraged and the congregation becomes ones family and only friends. This maintains a groupthink environment which encourages conformity and results in a narrow view (Macionis, 2009, p. 126). Something else that reinforces this "narrow view" is information control. Opposition literature, interfaith literature, and University educations are strictly discouraged so the groupthink mindset remains untainted. Frequent meetings, regular ministry, and mandatory "family" and "personal" study help even more to reinforce the groupthink and exclude anything that could force a person to reevaluate their belief system (Watchtower, 2008, p.3-11) . The ban on University education creates ever more narrow mindsets and susceptible adherents. Minimal education equals low socio-economic members, which gives these people even more reasons to remain faithful and look to rescue by God.
With these things in mind, wouldn't it be logical to say that this religion may qualify as a cult--a cult that does cause long term emotional and personal damage to its adherents?
JW's are convinced they are the one true religion and everyone who is not a member will die at Armageddon as sinners. This creates a social-conflict between the faithful and those they must work alongside. The in-group mentality helps prevent too much outside association so acceptance that everyone is going to die becomes easier. Jehovah's Witnesses also focus on the bad in the world because this reinforces their belief that "Armageddon must be near". This results in a rather negative view of the world in general and widespread mental illness amongst Jehovah's Witnesses is a testament to the long-term effects of this mindset (http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mental-issues.php).
I was raised in a working class family, but my father's hard work and savings has provided me my house which is providing my education. I already live a life of more enjoyment than he ever had and I have more luxuries because I am willing to spend the money. I don't know if that could be called intergenerational social mobility or simply the tendency of Generation X to spend more and save less. What I do know is that life is more optimistic without religion and I feel in more control of my destiny.
References
Biema, David Van (2008, February 25). America's Unfaithful Faithful. Time. Retrieved from http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1716987,00.html
Macionis, John J. (2009). Society the Basics (10 th ed.). Upper Saddle River, NJ; Pearson Education, Inc.
Questions From Readers. (1986, October 15). The Watchtower, p. 31.
Repudiate Valueless Things. (2008, April 15). The Watchtower, p. 3-11.